AFC Canyon Mines - 9/6/08

[ExpUt]

Kurt I tried registering for your forum, but after following the activation steps in the email I recieved I am still not able to get into any of the forums. Is there something on your end that needs to be done?

We manually approve all new members You should have access now.

On that note, we are going to move more of the sections to "special" users only, there are a couple already (you won't even see them appear) and the mine database is likely going to be one, just to protect the information. Corey and I chatted a bit about this. While advertising and advocating publicly has its plus's, it also has its drawbacks, such is the case with the "Blackjack Mine" that we explored Friday night... I truly think making it even remotely public would lead to its ultimate closure, its on private property, its in an urban forest canyon and the land owners have been overzealous in closures in the past. On a similar note, some of the old documents that I have been given by "old-timers" came with the extreme advisory that I not "put them on the internet" or make them available for the masses. While I don't want to come across as a hoarder, I don't want to burn my bridges with my contacts and from their perspective and my own I can see why public sharing of this type of info can be extremely taboo. Thats not to say I won't share this info with an interested mine enthusiast that asks, I'd invite them to my place to thumb through books, etc. The mine control gentleman I met with Friday morning was much this way, he works for essentially a utility agency and doesn't want his name attached to mine exploring, I was honest with my intentions, and I mentioned MU and GRE to him as well, while he was excited there are groups advocating for the preservation, he didn't like the thought of people entering these mines, and only through my friend Chris's intense knowledge on the LC Canyon was he really open with us.

I've got a huge backlog of photos and data I need to get up on my site, most will be done in a similar pattern as the Silver Lake mines. Others in the AF Canyon area, as well as some of the bigger Big & Little Cottonwood mines I've visited ie Cardiff, Woodlawn, Lost Emma, Reg. Johnson, Mineral Fork, Blind Miner, etc.

[Stuart]

Secrecy

You have been a busy man Kurt. I definitely respect your "limiting" circulation of sensitive mine knowledge. I am all for keeping things under wraps if closure can be prevented by doing so. I can assure you that any knowledge taken from your site by either Mike, Derek, or I will not be posted anywhere or shared with anyone outside the Mine Team.

On the other hand, I do not at all advocate the extreme level of secrecy that some groups, particularly ones in California/Nevada, maintain with the false idea that keeping locations secret will prevent the BLM or other closure groups from knowing about them. Derek can back me up on this

Thanks for the Pictures!

[Derek]

Re: Secrecy

You have been a busy man Kurt. I definitely respect your "limiting" circulation of sensitive mine knowledge. I am all for keeping things under wraps if closure can be prevented by doing so. I can assure you that any knowledge taken from your site by either Mike, Derek, or I will not be posted anywhere or shared with anyone outside the Mine Team.

On the other hand, I do not at all advocate the extreme level of secrecy that some groups, particularly ones in California/Nevada, maintain with the false idea that keeping locations secret will prevent the BLM or other closure groups from knowing about them. Derek can back me up on this

Thanks for the Pictures!

OH yes I can definitely back Stuart up on this one as we have talked at length about this very subject. I agree with Stuart keeping a "limited" circulation on sensitive stuff and I also agree that dedicated groups such as ours and ExpUt have much to gain by sharing info. The instances where sharing the info publicly has been costly are far less than I think people think. Now Kurt I'm not talking about the stuff on private property as these areas should only be accessed with permission of the landowner. There has been one instance than I can think of where sharing the info publicly has been a costly mistake and that is the Victor Mine in southern California often referred to as the "underground city" because of its large size. Many people didn't know that this mine was still under private ownership by a company that I can't recall the name of and when it was brought to the attention of this company that their mine was being visited frequently by people they bulldozed the entrance in order to avoid liability. But once again this was because the mine was private and people either knowingly or unknowingly were trespassing on private property. Make no mistake about it the states that these mines are in might not know the location of all of the mines, but I would guess that they know where 99.9% of them are. I guess it all comes down to a trust issue. My thought on the subject is if a person is interested enough to put forth an effort to get involved, then I'll share a little info with them, and then a little more and a little more until I am sure that I can trust them. In the past I have been involved with groups where the information exchange was mainly one sided (meaning I was sharing all of the info) and I definitely don't like that approach

[ExpUt]

On the other hand, I do not at all advocate the extreme level of secrecy that some groups, particularly ones in California/Nevada, maintain with the false idea that keeping locations secret will prevent the BLM or other closure groups from knowing about them. Derek can back me up on this !

Agreed, but its really a case by case situation. The Blackjack Mine in LCC for example would be closed in a week if the right (or wrong folks caught wind of it I beleive. Given its size, levels, dynamite and proximity to would be explorers, it doesn't stand a chance. More than that, I'm respecting those that showed it to me, they have been exploring it for 15 years and I don't want to comprimise.

My issue with posting more information here on MU, 1. I don't know the majority of the members, 2. you don't even have to be a registered member to read any of the threads. So any/all information posted here is open to a casual stop by or a someone with more malice intentions.