abc4's McKay Allen - Put Us All To Shame...

[ExpUt]

The persons in that video are Myself, Kyle Parker, Josh Peters, and Jon Peters on July 24th 2007....

I was wondering if you were going to chime in on this thread

Sad to hear it came about in a somewhat sketchy way, I've had enough dealing with the media during my tenure with the U4WDA to discover they can easily spin anything, every way, any time to fit the story they are creating. Face it, this sport, hobby, facination, whatever you want to call it, is against the standard grains of society. Not only the "protect and guardrail everything" government, but the vast members of society whom either feels mines are a giant eyesore and they should be "reclaimed" as if they never existed or those that have no risk in their lives and frown at those that do risky things for fun. The media painted the picture they wanted to hear imo.

[RedRockXJ]

Yes, I agree completely.

I now fully support Mike and Stuart with the idea of only hosting vids here. They will be protected, and kept away from high traffic public that aren't of any interest to our hobby. The ones who find the vids here, will be the real legit hobbyists only. And if they aren't, then they'll have to deal with copyright laws

[RockRacer]

DOGM is slated to be closing the Honerine and all the surrounding mines sometime this year in their KESSLER project. Unless they decide otherwise

What can we do about this Stuart? I can stand in front of the bulldozer!

[Stuart]

Well standing in front of the bulldozer would delay it for a few minutes anyway

If there were some way to have the good mines gated instead of just backfilled and arrange a system for allowing access, then I would not be as apposed to the DOGM's AMRP. As it stands right now with 90% of the mines being backfilled regardless of historical value, I am not happy with things.

[Mike]

I fully plan on sitting inside the mine (with rations and mining gear of course) with a dare to allow them to backfill the mine with me in it. Bring it on, suckers. Imagine the story there!

[RockRacer]

I fully plan on sitting inside the mine (with rations and mining gear of course) with a dare to allow them to backfill the mine with me in it. Bring it on, suckers. Imagine the story there!

I am with you 110% Mike! Hard core till the end!!
I just need to be back in time for dinner, otherwise the wife will be mad.

I agree with you Stuart.

[ExpUt]

Who is the current owner of the mine? If it is a private owner cooperating with the DOGM, there isn't much legal leg to stand on and frankly I think any publicized act to stop the closure will come off as bad as this last story to the general public? My recommendation would be for MU to really step the efforts to contact these mine owners and find out what their agreement is with the DOGM. As we all know the DOGM in the past has rushed to close a mine before allowing owners to express their interests, but given the long history of the Honorine I can only imagine they have been in contact with the owners.

Attractive nuisance and liability laws are going to round every sharp corner in our society in the coming years. As a private owner of an abandoned mine, you are just counting the days until some oxygen makes a case against you. The owners of the Earl-Eagle claim in AF Canyon were forced to close their property (old mine roads) to public use after a dude tried to turn around on a very narrow switchback. He is killed in the rollover and his family figures the fault lies on the roads owners, after all they should have had signs warning against the dangerous route. They threatened a lawsuit. The area now has a gate preventing public passage. I'm confident the DOGM uses these exact fear tactics to gain consent from mine owners, many of which have little or no interest in the actual mine, rather the often accompanied patent land that comes along with it. This would be the case for properties all over the state including the many mines owned by the ski-resorts up BC, LC and AF Canyons, they want the land and not the liability of the mines.

[RedRockXJ]

How can we find the owners?

[Stuart]

Well said Kurt, yes the DOGM does and will always use fear of liability tactics to close mines. I'm fairly confident that if we can get a hold of the land owner we can work out some kind of a deal similar to what we have arranged in the Ophir area. The mine gets saved, access is controlled and limited to those with safety gear and training, liability releases are filled out prior to entry, and the DOGM is also relieved from the hellstorm that we would otherwise rain down upon them.

How can we find the owners?

Good question, the easiest and usually most successful way is to ask around. Nearly 1/4 of all the members on this website are from Tooele and I'm sure someone has a lead.

[ExpUt]

Spend some time at the County Recorders office, in this case the Tooele County recorder. Somebody is paying tax on that parcel and you can bet your butt that recorders office knows where to send the bill.

I don't have any experience in Tooele County, but I have done it for parcels in Salt Lake and Utah County. Utah County you can actually search out parcels online: http://ims2.co.utah.ut.us/website/Re...ealTimeGIS.asp I've been able to determine the owners of parcels in AF Canyon using this site in the past.

Its all public record, so you can see who has been paying the tax and maybe even some title information. Keep in mind some recorders offices charge a "fee" for pulling this information, so narrow your results as best as possible.

The other way would be to see if the DOGM keeps records, they however might not be willing to share their data? If the claims are current they will have the information, someone is doing the assessment work.

You will needs some accurate mapping date, usually based on STR (Section, Township, Range). Mine claims often were VERY overlapping and this can get confusing when it comes down to tracking down the owner.

When you come up with this:

Owner: UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

You know your SOL, I've found quite a few mine claims in AFC that have been returned to public ownership. I don't know the details, if the didn't pay tax, if they sold, if they traded.

To give you an example of the "overlap" in claims (keep in mind claims do not equal property ownership in every case), check out this:

[RockRacer]

The owners of the Earl-Eagle claim in AF Canyon were forced to close their property (old mine roads) to public use after a dude tried to turn around on a very narrow switchback. He is killed in the rollover and his family figures the fault lies on the roads owners, after all they should have had signs warning against the dangerous route. They threatened a lawsuit. The area now has a gate preventing public passage.

Yet another case of not taking responsibility for your own actions!

[ExpUt]

And Stuart your right on the mark, the relationship MU has developed with the owners of the Ophir Hill are a prime example of what could be done with other mines. Cavers have been doing it for years, I think the opportunity exists in the mine exploration world just the same, its just finding the manpower and resources to implement it.

[TooeleCherokee]

I have tried with the Tooele County Recorders office in the past to determine who owns specific land for other reasons but they will NOT do a title search for the public and they are hard core about it. if you even say you want to know who owns X land they immediately go off on you letting you know that they do not do title searches for the public. Maybe someone else would have better luck.

[lobster68w]

I have tried with the Tooele County Recorders office in the past to determine who owns specific land for other reasons but they will NOT do a title search for the public and they are hard core about it. if you even say you want to know who owns X land they immediately go off on you letting you know that they do not do title searches for the public. Maybe someone else would have better luck.

That's really odd. Back home in MN, it's public knowledge who owns what. People go to the county all the time to see who owns what piece of land, plus they have a website that includes how much said property pays in taxes each year, etc, etc. They also publish a plat book. Interesting.

[ExpUt]

I have tried with the Tooele County Recorders office in the past to determine who owns specific land for other reasons but they will NOT do a title search for the public and they are hard core about it. if you even say you want to know who owns X land they immediately go off on you letting you know that they do not do title searches for the public. Maybe someone else would have better luck.

That's really odd. Back home in MN, it's public knowledge who owns what. People go to the county all the time to see who owns what piece of land, plus they have a website that includes how much said property pays in taxes each year, etc, etc. They also publish a plat book. Interesting.

That is really odd, my guess is you caught somebody on a bad day. They legally have to make tax & plat information available, however they can charge you for their time researching or pulling the information. It would be worth another try, but you need to have all the plat coordinates ahead of time so you can just hand it off to them.