Nutty Putty Cave in the News

[RockRacer]

Thanks for the number and setting up the email.

I also created a group on Facebook:

Save Nutty Putty Cave on Facebook

I know it's not likely that it will work out, but now is our only chance to stop this tragedy from turning into two.

Yeah man I didn't setup that email though, just found that post and sent an email to it. I will be joining the group. It can't hurt!

[bergdh]

I hope that they can find some way to keep it open, but I think it was game over the moment they had a "senator" on S&R.

[RockRacer]

SAVE THE CAVE

New KSL article

December 2nd, 2009 @ 3:09pm
By Randall Jeppesen
UTAH COUNTY -- A growing number of cavers are trying to find ways to persuade officials to keep the Nutty Putty caves open.

Benjamin Allen has been in the Nutty Putty caves dozens of times and says he used to take therapy groups there to teach people how to overcome fears and gain confidence.

"I think it's done so much good for so many people, because as they go in there it's just like conquering a climbing wall or something. You feel confident. You've done something that you were afraid to do. Shutting the caves would be a great loss to all of us," Allen says.

He's proposing only the lower sections of the caves be sealed off, and he's even willing to pay to have it done himself.

"I would pay for it and take people in there, and we could close off the bottom section," Allen says. "The rest of the cave could still remain open.

Michael Douglas takes nature groups through Nutty Putty and says he's been in the caves at least 45 times in the past 10 years with kids as young as 5 years old.

"We're in mourning. We are very disappointed to see this shut down," Douglas says. "There are other caving opportunities in the area, but Nutty Putty is a very unique feature and we hope that if there is the opportunity to keep it open that somebody might here us and might open that discussion as quickly as possible.

The email address savenuttyputtycave@gmail.com has been set up by a group hoping to keep the caves open, and they're directing their efforts toward the State Trust Lands Management which owns the property.

Sgt. Spencer Cannon with the Utah County Sheriff's office says his office is receiving phone calls from people upset by the caves' closure. However, he says the decision made by the groups overseeing the caves -- including the sheriff's office and the State Trust Lands -- will be enforced and the caves sealed off.

"We understand that people like to go there, and we don't take likely a decision to shut off an attraction that has been popular to so many people," Cannon says. "But the determination was made that the risk was just too high to leave it open."

Cannon says during the process, agencies did discuss closing only the portion of the cave where John Jones died but decided there were many different sections of the cave that also were dangerous.

The idea was also brought up to close the cave for 10 or more years and then go in and recover the remains and open the rest of the cave back up. Cannon says that was decided against as well in part because the body is stuck in a steep area that is difficult to get to and the remains might fall deeper where they can never be recovered.

[Mark1955]

The idea was also brought up to close the cave for 10 or more years and then go in and recover the remains and open the rest of the cave back up. Cannon says that was decided against as well in part because the body is stuck in a steep area that is difficult to get to and the remains might fall deeper where they can never be recovered.

All the bnetter reason to just seal Mr. Jones in his own chamber!!!

Perhaps Mojave could assist to get those other groups which had used the cave to get into the mines at Ophir so they still have a place for therapy and so on. I think that wold be a gteat gesture.

Mark

[bergdh]

With all due respect Isnt there a option to bring in CSI and BONES and get them to do some advanced de comp and recovery?

[KDT1970]

I heard on fox 13 tonight that they are sealing it off where the body is and the cave opening also. It is supposed to be all sealed up in the next week.

[ExpUt]

News tonight showed it already sealed, they'll have it 100% complete this weekend. Ridiculous.

[KDT1970]

I know its ridiculous, I also heard around the same weekend this person died, that somebody died while riding his motorcycle and a lady died hiking, I am preety sure they are not going to ban and close down these particulear areas where the deaths occured. It was very tragic for what happend, but this is in no way an excuse to start closing things down.

[Mike]

It is only a matter of time that a good Samaritan opens the cave back up. A cave like that has got to breath...

[Troy]

Indeed you are a good Samaritan mike.....

[ryan162]

It is only a matter of time that a good Samaritan opens the cave back up. A cave like that has got to breath...

hahh thats true! unless they really put the cement to it in quantity, but they will probably just kinda cap it

[CaverStretch]

I believe it was dynamited shut, and the top of the entrance was encased in concrete. Probably to hold a head stone of some sort.

[Stuart]

Remember when the United States used to be a democracy? If the people do not wish the cave to be closed, then it should not be closed. SITLA lands are still public lands controlled by the State for the people. If the people say no don't close, the ***********************************s should not close it without consulting the people. Instead they just went up there and blasted it shut before anyone could stop it from happening. It's time to protest, let's not let the government walk all over us anymore!

[rhartill]

More info can be found here, a website that has recently become the private site of Michael Leavitt.

http://www.nuttyputtycave.com/

In discussing the public outrage over failure to recover the caver's body, and whether the public has a say in the cave's closure, Leavitt claims that the cave is private property.

Utah Trust lands are defined as “ those properties granted by the United States in the Utah Enabling Act to the state of Utah in trust, or other properties transferred to the trust, to be managed for the benefit of the public school system and the various institutions of the state in whose behalf the lands were granted.” For example, Utah code annotated UCA 9-8-305 requires that all archaeological work conducted on lands belonging to the state (including trust lands) be authorized by a permit issued by PLPCO. Trust lands ARE State lands. Lands belonging to the State ARE by definition public in that the State (we) own them. There is no such thing as State owned private lands. Private means owned by individuals and corporations. Public lands may mean to some, including Michael Leavitt, a degree of accessibility, but that is not the legal term. Leavitt confuses public and private and concludes that State trust lands are somehow private because they are not recreational in nature. Leavitt further claims these state lands are private because the State can ban the public from accessing their property.

Not exactly so. The public has a right of entry onto SITLA lands and does not need to apply for a permit to enter SITLA lands if their entry is for less than 15 days for non commercial purposes. The public may be excluded if the trust lands are under a State authorized management plan or have been leased to private parties.
[See R850-41-200. Rights-of-Entry on Trust Lands Administration Lands, at http://www.rules.utah.gov/publicat/c...850-041.htm#T3 ]


Public lands may not be accessible, may not be public in the sense that I can trespass freely on any land not designated private, but it is indisputable that these trust lands are publically owned. We have a say in how they are administered and how they are used.
That "say" may be very indirect--we can vote out the governor if we don't like the policies he/she are implementing, but for Leavitt to imply that he was administering private land is legally inaccurate. The State Institutional Trust Lands Administration IS a State agency, and WE are the State. Trust lands are NOT private lands. Leavitt's insistence in claiming otherwise is confusing to the plain meaning and difference between public and private land holdings. In other States these lands are nicknamed School sections, and typically are Sections 16 and 36 of any given township and range. They are considered State lands and are public in that they are owned by the State. They are considered to be leasable by the public, upon application to the State. In Utah, the public can apply to SITLA to commercially exploit these lands.

[bergdh]

On the nutty putty site there is a interview with channel 4, seems that they are leaving it open for the family to change their minds on if they want to remove his body in the future. If that statement is true coming from the authority's who closed the cave, then A) they are lying about the ability to remove his body currently and in the future, and B) they should close it until it can be removed and then reopen with this unsafe area closed.

I believe that the authority's are using this tragedy as a means to close the cave for their own reasons, I for one would be irate if my death doing something I loved was twisted in such a manner. Its obvious that the speed in which they moved to close it, meant that they knew they we going above the law and above the people who would and should work to reopen it.